It seems that Infratil and First Scotrail have failed to agree how much the train operator should pay the airport to stop trains at the airport station (which First are contractually obliged to do under the terms of their franchise). The matter has been referred to the Office of Rail Regulation and a number of supporting documents are here on the ORR’s website.

It’s obviously a complex matter and I don’t think it would be fair for anyone here to comment on who they think is in the right or in the wrong based solely on a reading of these documents. Nevertheless, two of the documents contain some interesting statements:

1. On page three of this, First Scotrail state that significant repairs are required to the station due to its poor initial construction. They then query whether Infratil will carry out these works and whether the station has a long term future.

2. On page four of this, Infratil state that “After interest, Glasgow Prestwick is currently not profitable… [Infratil] has invested in the infrastructure in good faith and is not currently earning a reasonable return on that investment.”

The statement about the airport’s financial position is particularly interesting and perhaps puts into context some of the matters raised by others in posts elsewhere in this forum about Infratil’s charges.

Hi Tartan 201

Intresting reading! It seems that all is not well at PIK as mentioned in the forum previously. I know this is only speculation.. but at what point to Infratil give up the game? especially if they are quoted saying PIK is not producing the returns they expect.

They have increased prices which in turn have scared off potential new routes.. new routes mean more pax & more revenue, however in Infratils defence they still need to produce a profit, so I asume they are increasing costs to acheive this but in the knowledge that some routes will be lost.

Sounds to me like Infratil dont care about the rail station

PIK is clearly is a mess - reading the documents it just amazes me even more why PIK Management havent even been returning calls to some tour operators (as posted earlier by FlySun). They need all the flights they can get

With the present high interest in airports, could this be the time for Infratil to sell up?

Hi 'Humberside'. You say " sounds to me like Infratil dont care about the rail station "? i say," Infratil dont care about the Airport " ---- full stop. How on earth do they (Infratil) expect to make profit when they increase charges etc., for all & sundry, throughout ( practically) the whole Airport, operators, etc,. We have already lost some of the things ( operators, routes, etc, ) that we had and really, have lost some of the things ( operators, routes, etc, ) that we could have had. Seriously though, all these things that we the public are being made aware of ie, how bad PIK is operating for Infratil, i think its time Infratil just packed their bags & went home, before they completely destroy all the great work that had been done at PIK prior to Infratils arrival. PIK is a goldmine for the right owner. Long live PIK. Cheers, lte flyer.

This is new, trying to get get every last penny off of First Rail. They really are desperate.

Infratil are full of sh*t, Prestwick was profitbale until they stepped in. The company simply do not know the low cost European model, especially that of Ryanairs and low cost holiday companys. Things just aint the same as Australia where they get away with it.

PAX numbers down, FREIGHT numbers down .... everything is down apart from the cost which is UP!! Surely they can see the damage being caused.

Thank you tartan201 for such an interesting contribution.

Does anyone know what happened to PIK's grand plan to redevelop a large parcel of their land on the Whittletts/Heathfield border. There was some coverage in the local press, perhaps two/three years ago? This was rapidly followed by reports of outraged neighbours rightly up in arms about fast food shacks being built on the other side of their garden fences. And there the story died.

As I recall, the sale value to Infratil was reportedly tens of millions of pounds. It looked like nothing more than naked asset stripping with no added value or long term aviation related developments included. It struck me as a potentially very profitable deal for Infratil, with only a very small percentage of the realised funds being ploughed back into the terminal redevelopment. Any further information appreciated.

Unless I am mistaken the sale of land at Heathfield was by the BAA subsidiary Lynton Properties. The BAA had closed the 21/03 runway to all except light aircraft by reducing the effective length by at least half to something under 3000 feet. I do not believe that Infratil have sold off any of the estate.

They may not be too concerned about the railway station, however, as its removal would boost the requirement for car parking! The Scottish Executive should be concerned as the Prestwick Airport rail link has proved to be very successful with 30% passenger usage according to some reports. This is much higher than predicted for the proposed Glasgow Airport link which will cost a small fortune!

Hi
Without sound like am anti-PIK. The take up of the rail link is mainly due to the fact that PIK is so far away from Glasgow that the Rail link is the best (if not only option) for people traveling on a budget.

regards

Can someone outline to me exactly what the 'European Low Cost' airport model is? I'm struggling with this because I do not have any examples of a strictly 'low cost' airport. What I am seeing are mainline airports creating low cost terminals (MAD and I suppose GLA to a degree with the old international pier ) which are in reality just very basic structures.

As regards airports being fully 'low cost' then my only experience is that of PIK when it first started up after the BAA era. I spoke to Hugh Lang at the time and it appeared that the 'low cost' model was:

1. Attract operators by cutting their airport costs low - ie. landing and handling fees.
2. Keep airport costs low by keeping things simple and keeping your human resources to a minimum by ensuring 'multi-skilling' .ie. Fire Crew working as baggage handlers etc.
3. Running all services in-house - catering, shops etc.

Hugh said at the time that the airport was also being run on a 'cashflow' basis in that any profits created would be used to fund improvements but unless capital investment was secured improvements wouldn't happen quickly as although the airport was starting to make a profit there was not enough profit to ensure large scale investment. (The major investment to PIK at the time was public money and the only private money of any great amount has come from Stagecoach (£10m?) and Infratil.)

He also stated that as the airport grew in passenger numbers initiatives like multi-skilling would have to go with a return to specialist working. Also running the various services would be outsourced to specialist companies and rentals charged. The original PIK low cost model would not work as attempting to run the airport on that basis would mean that it became too difficult to generate sufficient profit to ensure continued investment. Also running everything in house created huge problems from a staffing and 'expertise' point of view and utsourcing to specialist retailers was a more efficient and effective option.

And this is exactly what has happened at PIK. So,to me, PIK is just now becoming an airport run on 'normal' lines. It would appear that Manston is being run on similar lines to the original PIK model at present by Infratil.

So, can someone help me to understand this European Low Cost Model and how it works and what airports are using it continually without change?

Without sound like am anti-PIK. The take up of the rail link is mainly due to the fact that PIK is so far away from Glasgow......


.........YAWN

Monkton3,

Whats the problem? What a stupid reply from you. Its true. Folk would rather sit on a train ride to Glasgow City rather than a bus. The service is fast and efficient. The cost of taxis etc to/fm Glasgow is also an exspensive option.

So get rid of your YAWN.

Hi 'John Dundas'. Without sounding like i am anti-GLA. The take up of the rail link is mainly due to the fact that passengers (the people who have used the link) wanted to fly from PIK. No other reason John. I dont think it would be wholly justified to say that everyone who uses the rail link does so because they are travelling on a budget. I do know of people coming from a sight farther away than GLA, but whatever the reason it's their choice.
With regards to you RAILING monkton3 John, well, that took me back to one of our topics last week, when YOUR answer to one of my COMMENT's was ---- yeah ---- you've guessed it, YAWN. A wee bit unfair on monkton3 John, when you know you have done the same thin yourself. All us Taxiway Alpha'rs are a kind, dedicated, luvin lot. Lets keep it that way. No offence meant to you 'John Dundas' Cheers, lte flyer.

Hi
Lets get a few things straight. First of all it seems that the "Lets protect PIK" folk have jumped on me because I said that people flying to/from PIK would use the train to get to Glasgow. This is a FACT. Not every in/out coming pax will have someone to meet them or afford the taxi fare.

Next, you have misread my message about people using the railyway who are travelling on a budget, people will budget for travel and thats the whole idea of flying locosts and its been dicussed many times that such locost operations have brought folk into Scotland who might not have come if the ticket prices were high.


Also I did not say that everyone who used the railyway station where traveling on a budget.

Same old crap differant forum.

Hi 'John Dundas'. As i say, all us Taxiway Alpha'rs are a kind, dedicated, luvin lot. Cheers, lte flyer.

As an outsider looking in....
(I haven't even been to PIK or it's conurbation for a few years now)

Reading what I've sussed... >>>

I've got a gut feeling Infratil are 'on the make'.. can't see any other reason.

Infratil are here to make money.
If there is no lolly ££££'s to be made, they wouldn't be here.

Simple.

This is a good debating forum the c£££p is on another forum where its my airport is better than yours ie GLA v EDI there is plenty of anti PIK/FR especially FR posted in it

Hi
People are allowed to have their own views about various airlines. Just because I dont like FR it does not mean that I dont like PIK.

It seems that if you dont like FR your anti-PIK. This is not true at all...

As the owner of a private railway station Infratil is entitled to levy First Scotrail an access charge. Network Rail do it at certain stations, so why shouldn’t Infratil? A careful reading of the document shows that First Scotrail don’t dispute the principle of the charge, but merely the amount (which it seems Infratil have calculated using a method published by the ORR).

So I don’t think it’s "new" (station access charges have been around since the beginning of rail privatisation) and don’t think Infratil is “trying to get get every last penny off of First [Scot] Rail’ and I don’t think charging for use of an asset that others charge for makes Infratil "desperate". I’m happy, however, to be proved wrong on those points if someone can put up a decent fact-based argument.

I would say that passenger numbers are static rather than down (I admit there’s been the odd month recently with a decline of a handful of percent). But has anyone stopped to consider that this might not only be about charges? Passenger growth was high in previous years, fuelled mainly by Ryanair's growth. At that time, however, Ryanair's growth was mainly in the UK and continental Europe was only just warming to the ‘low cost European model’ (whatever that is, as a previous poster said). Things are different now and Germany, Spain, Italy etc are all proving fertile ground for Ryanair's growth (as Prestwick was in the earlier half of this decade).

Ryanair are going to put their planes where they think they can make the most money – irrespective of where people on here want them to put them. How much money do they make at Prestwick? – I’m sure no-one on here knows for a fact (or would be able to say if they did), but we can get an interesting insight from data published by the CAA earlier this week (see here). Three points scream out:
- Prestwick has the second-lowest proportion of business passengers of the airports surveyed.
- Only 25% of Prestwick’s passengers had flown more than three times in the preceding year (the lowest in the survey)
- Prestwick has the lowest average passenger age of the airports surveyed.

That suggests that your typical Prestwick (and hence Ryanair at Prestwick) passenger is a young, extremely price-sensitive leisure traveller. I’m sure they’ll look up ryanair.com and decide to take a flight on a whim if they can go somewhere for £29.99 – if the price was £299.99 they probably wouldn’t go (they’re price-sensitive leisure passengers remember – they don't have to travel). Compare this to the businessperson who simply has to travel somewhere for a meeting, books his or her flight at a day’s notice and doesn’t think twice about paying £299.99.

Now if Prestwick's passengers are made up of 94% of the former and 6% of the latter, how much money do you really think Ryanair make out of Prestwick? Why should they continue to base planes at Prestwick when they can base them at East Midlands, Liverpool or somewhere in continental Europe and make more money? (and access a much larger catchment to boot).

The above is put much better in a post in the (sadly) now defunct ‘enplaned’ blog (see here and scroll down to the 19th December post on Prestwick). The stalled passenger growth is a result of Ryanair's established routes maturing and them realising that they can make more money elsewhere rather than just a result of Infratil trying to charge more. Again, though, I’m happy to be proved wrong if someone can put up a decent fact-based argument.

As for the reduction in freight, the reason for that is clear: a dramatic reduction in the exports from Scotland’s electronics industry. How is that Infratil's fault?

As for putting their charges up, surely that has to be part of their strategy for making the airport profitable (which they say it isn't). I appreciate that another part of that strategy would be to get more passengers through the airport and that some of the practices mentioned earlier by ‘FlySun’ don’t seem to be helping. Perhaps I’m stating the obvious, but remember Infratil is a business, not a charity for providing more planes for people to photograph.

an excellent overall post tartan, finished with the quote of the year

The ORR has reached a decision on this (though whether it pleases Infratil more or First I'm not too sure). Anyway, the decision documents are all here and this document explains the decision and how it was reached.

Guys, it really saddens me what the current owners are doing to Prestwick.
I have 2 friends who were employed at PIK, one in the passenger side and the other in cargo.
Both have since left and made no bones about it that the management could`nt organise a p*** up in a brewery.
There is no vision for the future, and management methods are stuck in the dark ages.

I also know a fireman who recently left, who, without mentioning airlines, said I would be gobsmacked at the operators
the airport has knocked back, as they would`nt cut them a deal.

I have said for years, that PIK must have a transatlantic operator, and by all accounts we could have had one, but for the
management currently in charge.

Infratil, in my opinion should GO and go now, if someone was willing to buy the "superdrome"

Hi 'Tiger8'. I have said so myself before, that infratil should seek a buyer & GO. It really saddens me to read things like this. Cheers, lte flyer.